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Some Logie History

By Dr. Hendry

1998 - Scotland

Some of the Loggie family history, or the only part of the recorded history is found in court records of the day. They may have been fighting for the correct rightful cause, and that fact not recorded, it depended on who was in power.

A William J Loggie, thought to be a lawyer, did some research into the name of Logie. The main reason William J was doing this research was to collect information in an attempt to establish which tartan, if any, the Logie’s were entitled to wear. A summary of the paper, of eight typewritten pages by William J, is that there is no one known Logie tartan, but there are probably a number they could wear, because they were in many battles.

Extract from Bain's Index. No date but probably about 1200 A.D. -

"An " Earl of Cospatrick, formally Earl of Dunbar in Scotland, had a brother, Dolfin, Earl of Northumberland, who both being bastards, had a legitimate brother Waldeve and a legitimate sister, Ethelreda.

A Ranulph de Meschinis came to England with William Bastard the Conqueror; the King gave him all the land from the place called Sulewaht (Solway) to the true marches there between Scotland and England. And the said Ranulph (Ralph) was then created Earl of Karliol (Carlisle). Ranulph gained the said Waldeve as an ally on account of the war between the Scots and England, as he was a Scotsman, and gave him for his services the whole Barony of Allerdale from the place called Wahelpole as far as Derwent saving to himself all his venison. "

Cospatrick became Earl of Northumberland in 1067. William the Conqueror deprived him of that in 1072. Cospatrick then fled to Scotland and was given Earldom of Dunbar. (These areas prior part of Saxon Kingdom of Northumberland).

The said Waldeve gave to Odard de Logys, seneschal of Ralph de Meschinis, the vavassory of Wygetona with its townships and their pertinents for his service, doing to him the service of cornage, forynsee and pannage. Odard founded the Church of Wygeton in the said forest."

One of the Logie name is mentioned in the 12th century, the tartans were developed during the 17th and 18th centuries. In 1271 Master John de Logy is mentioned as being Canon of Dunkeld. In 1283 there is a record of a grant by Malise, Earl of Strathearn, of lands in Glenalmond to Sir Malise de Logy. In 1278 Thom de Logy witnessed a quitclaim of Beith-Waldef in Fife. (Note the similarity between the name Waldeve and Waldef).

At this point in history surnames were only coming into general use. Prior to the Norman Conquest people in both England and Scotland were known simply as Alfred "the Great", Ethelred "the unready, or in Scotland, as Gregor MacGregor - Gregor the son of Gregor

William J states, " I consider that sufficient proof has been established to claim that the Logie family should be considered as a sept of the Strathearn clan" (Septs are off-shoots connected to the clan through ties of blood or alliance). No Strathearn clan tartan is known today and it is doubtful if one ever existed.

Among the names recorded in 1295 (The Ragman's Roll) of those magnates and persons of quality in Scotland who were compelled to swear an oath of submission to King Edward of England after his successful invasion of part of Scotland were:

John of Logy (under age) and Wauter de Logy of Fife

In 1296 Among Scottish Prisoners taken at Dunbar Castle and committed to various prisons in England was:

Malise de Loghis- committed to Gloucester Castle

(Even though the spelling is different the list of names were made by the English, who were at that time mostly of Norman decent, the return of the "s" would appear to confirm remarks above regarding Odard de Logys.

During 1309-14 a petition by Gilbert Malherbe to the King.

The late King (presumed to be Robert the Bruce who was crowned king in 1306) gave Gilbert Malherbe the ward and marriage of Maliz de Logie's heir, but the Earl of Strathearn prevented him enjoying it, he, Gilbert Malherbe, begs a grant of the ward and marriage of the Earl of Menteiths son and heir, or the keeping of Jedburgh castle. Malise de Logi's heir would appear to be the John of Logy who is mentioned as being under age in the Ragman's Roll in 1295. It is presumed that this Malise de Logy died in prison, was executed by his captors, or took advantage of an offer made to all Scots P.O.W. at the time of having his life and lands spared on condition that he fought on behalf of England against the French. He may well have died abroad. (A note here by me George L Kingston. This is a funny turn of events having Malise de Logy, who name is obviously of French origin, fighting on behalf of England against the French).

In 1320 Sir John of Logy executed for his part in the Soulis conspiracy and his lands forfeited to the crown. The conspirators’ plot was revealed accidentally, they were tried by Parliament (The Black Parliament, Scone, August 1320) and William de Soulis and the Countess of Strathearn were condemned to perpetual imprisonment. Gilbert de Malherb and John of Logy, both Knights and Richard Brown, an esquire, were found guilty of treason and condemned to death. The nature of the conspiracy is not known, but must definitely have been aimed at removing Bruce from the Throne of Scotland. The Stone of Destiny is involved, King Edward of England seized the stone and all the important Scottish records and the Ragman's Roll.

1321 Phillip de Logy appears as a charter witness in Dundee.

1328 Record of payments to Phillip de Logy, Burgess of Dundee.

1330 Charter by Murdoch, Earl of Menteith to Robert Logie of the lands of Broculli in Fife.

Note: - Robert was a son of Malise de Logy and apparently a brother of Sir John of Logy who was executed. Murdoch, Earl of Menteith had a sister who married Malise, Earl of Strathearn.

1363 David II married Margaret Logie, nee Drummond, widow of Sir John of Logie (Sir John de Logy who was executed by Bruce - David's Father.)

(Note: - Margaret Logie or Drummond is described by the historians as being more renowned for her good looks than for her womanly virtues, and had evidently been married before her marriage to Sir John. Note that the name is now spelt Logie. This may have been after the proscription of the family when it was usual to change the name, in an attempt to avoid further persecution.

1366 The lands of Annandale given in seisin to John of Logie, son of the Queen of Scotland, by David II.

Note: - Queen Margaret was evidently looking after her son's interests here. The extract from Bain's Index reads "Dec. 16, 1366, on that day the King of Scotland, Sir Archibald Douglas, and other lords of Scotland came to Annandale and gave seisin of it to John de Logie, son of the Queen of Scotland"

These were not the lands originally held by Sir John of Logy, of the Soulis Conspiracy. An extract from The Scots Peerage by Sir James Balfour Paul, LLD. Lord Lyon King of Arms, read - "In 1323 the lands of Strathgartney were granted to Sir John Menteith who had married a niece of Robert I. These lands had previously belonged to Sir John Logie and were taken away from him by forfeiture in 1320." The lands of Strathgartney lie along the north bank of Loch Katrine.

1368 John Hay of Tullibody, marquis of Tweedale, paid 100 marks to John Logy of Logiealmond for the marriage of his daughter Margaret Logie.

Note:- John Hay of Tullibody, Tullibody is only a short distance from Blairlogie (on the road from Stirling to Dollar) and the present parish of Logie extends from the river Forth northwards over the Ochil Hills to Sheriffmuir. It would appear therefore that John Hay and John Logie had adjoining estates. For further connection with the Hay Family see 1493 below.

1385 Extract from the Red Book of Menteith. Vol. pp 148/149:

"A dispute having arisen between the Earl of Fife and Menteith and John of Logy, in which the latter called in question the right of the Earl to the possession of the lands of Logy and Strathgartney, the matter was referred to the arbitration of Andrew Mercer, Lord of Meiklour. These lands had belonged to Sir John Logy who was executed for taking part in the conspiracy of William Soulis against King Robert the Bruce, while his estates were forfeited to the Crown. The lands of Logy seem to have been given to the Earl of Douglas, while those of Strathgartney were bestowed on Sir John of Menteith and Elene of Mar, his spouse. Notwithstanding the possession of Strathgartney by Sir John of Menteith, David II issued a precept for entitlement John of Logy, the son of the late Sir John of Logy, in these lands, but afterwards, on being informed by his Council of the reasons for Sir John's forfeiture he recalled the infeftment and restored Strathgartney to Sir John of Menteith. Not long after the King's marriage to Margaret of Logy, John of Logy received from him the lands of Logy by a new grant. How they, with the lands of Strathgartney came into possession of Sir Robert Stewart, does not appear but that they were, is evident from the indenture of arbitration drawn up at the instance of Andrew Mercer. The Lord of Meiklour after hearing the parties adjudged that the lands belonged to John of Logy, and the Earl, having agreed to abide by the decision of the arbiter, at once transferred the lands to him with due formalities. The agreement and decision was made known to King Robert II, and affirmed in the presence of the Court by the Earl of Fife and Menteith and John of Logy. The resignation of the former in favour of the latter made within the Castle of Edinburgh on Whitsunday 1387 and was attested by John, Earl of Carrick, in a letter dated 5th May, 1389. The King afterwards confirmed the lands of Logy to John of Logy, and when the the men of Strathgartney were inclined to demur to the claims made upon them by their new Lord, the Earl of Fife and Menteith wrote to them, that although he had formerly prohibited them from obeying John of Logy, their Lord, before the latter had made good his claims to the lands, they should now serve as their lawful lord. This arrangement between the Earl of Fife and Menteith and John of Logy was the chamberlain to the Duke of Rothesay while he was Earl of Carrick."

Note: - Queen Margaret again appears to have been doing her best for her son, but whilst she appears to have been successful with the lands of Logy, those of Strathgartney appear to have presented some difficulty. However, John of Logy evidently was determined to get his rights and the above shows him to have been successful. His chamberlainship to the Duke of Rothesay is interesting as the Jamiesons are a sept of the Stewarts of Bute. Is this where Jamieson part of our name came from?

1396 Duncan Logy released from Norwich prison.

John of Logy released from Colchester Prison.

Note: - What these two were doing in prison in the first place is not very clear, but it appears that they were arrested in violation of the truce. (Whatever the truce may have been;) It is fairly obvious, however, that if there was any trouble going at this time, A Logy was almost certain to be in it.

1457 Alexander Logy admitted Burgess of Aberdeen.

1493 Thomas Hay of Logy, who was slain at Flodden with his brother on 9/9/1513, married in 1493 Margaret Loggie, heiress of Logiealmond in Perthshire, of which lands he had a charter upon his resignation, and precept from King James IV for infefting him and her in the barony on 4/10/1493. She survived him and married Robert Murray. By her first marriage Margaret had a son George, who became 7th Earl of Errol, and a daughter, Beatrix, who married Walter Bonar of Keltie.

Note: - Margaret Logie was the daughter of John Logie of Logiealmond and Euphemia Boyd. Euphemia was the daughter of Alexander Boyd, Earl of Kilmarnock at the time. It would appear that this was a marriage of cousins as in 1368 a Thos. Hay of Tullibody married Margaret Logie - see entry under that date. The Hay family thus gained the lands previously owned by the Logie family and there is no further record of any of the Logie’s holding their ancestral lands.

The actual origin of the Logie family is obscure, but it is thought it originated with Orard de Logys. The main branch of the family - Logie of Logie and Logiealmond - apparently finished when the lands passed to the Hay family through marriage. It should be noted that at this time in Scotland heritable property passed to the eldest child irrespective of sex and therefore when the eldest child was a female the lands would pass to her and then to her husband and children. Since the children would bear her husband's family name the name of Logie would eventually end. The Logie’s in Scotland today are descendants of the original.

The Logie family, sometimes spelt Loggie, originally came from the County Fife in Scotland, and can be traced back to the 13th Century. The main street of Dundee, Fife bears the name of Logie Street to remind one of the long history of the family there. It has its own crest.

In the course of time, some of the members of the family moved Northwards to Aberdeen, some went to Fochabers at the mouth of the Spey in the county of Moray.

According to our present information, our direct forbears had already moved to Fochabers by the beginning of the 18th Century, for we know that William Logie, born in July 1793, was a farmer at Redhall, Fochabers, where he lived with his wife, Jean Wiseman till his death on February the 22nd 1794, at the ripe old age of 80 years and seven months

See also "A Dictionary of Scottish Emigrants to Canada Before Confederation" by Donald Whyte, Published by the Ontario Genealogical Society in Toronto, 1986.

See also "Passengers and Immigration Lists Bibliography 1538-1900. Being a guide to Published Lists of Arrivals in the United States and Canada" edited by William Filby, 1981.